If you actually think about leading you'll usually miss. Just butt body beak boom! Pull up and shoot.
A shotgun is like a longbow, no sights like a compound or rifle. Its not made for aiming just point and shoot.
Also if your shooting one of those extreme range sky busting chokes at a decoying bird your making things harder. Try opening your choke.
I shot a lot of 3.5" shells last year to find out after pattern testing that my shotgun doesn't blows out the pattern of 3.5" shells. At 25 yards I only get a couple hits in the center. All the other shot is in a a couple foot ring around the middle.

Hope this helps.

Sent from my Tim Grounds Triple Crown

 

Put your bead on the head and pull the trigger. Most of the time that works unless there at a weird angle or its a farther away pass shooting shot.

 

Put your bead on the head and pull the trigger. Most of the time that works unless there at a weird angle or its a farther away pass shooting shot.

X2 AMEN AMEN :thumbsup:

if you have to lead more then that, they are too far away..the only exception would be if there is a STIFF crosswind!

 

I usually dont think about the shot and I keep both eyes open. I bought a sight a few years ago it is the one tom knapp uses it seems to help alot. It has a tube so you cant see the sight unless your cheek is on the butt of the gun. This allows you to keep both eyes open

 

Put your bead on the head and pull the trigger. Most of the time that works unless there at a weird angle or its a farther away pass shooting shot.

X2 AMEN AMEN :thumbsup:

if you have to lead more then that, they are too far away..the only exception would be if there is a STIFF crosswind!

This is bad advice IMHO. Good shooting starts with good habits. Shooting a moving target should always have some aspect of swing, lead, and follow through. If you miss any part of this then you are strictly shooting a point in space rather than using the shot string to it's full advantage. This is less important on birds that are 15-20 yards in your face coming right at you, but add any kind of quartering or crossing angle then it becomes very important.

The two most common forms of lead are sustained lead and pull through lead. Sustained lead is more difficult as you are trying to measure the distance between the bead an bird and often ends with you stopping the gun. Pull through (my preferred) you pull through the bird and pull the trigger when your sight picture is what you think you need to hit the bird. The best way to master this is to shoot a lot of skeet and sporting clays.

TakeM made some good points regarding choke selection. Decoying birds are best shot with a modified or improved cylinder IMO chokes. These two chokes will out perform full chokes within 25 yards as far as getting pellets on target, just my opinion. I don't take many shots past 30 yards so I have never felt the need to go to a anything tighter than a mod choke and often use a skeet choke.

To answer the original question, lead varies upon distance to target, speed of target, and angle of the shot. Simplified, A goose flying full speed across you will take 4-6 feet. For the fun of it.

Vg= 45 mph, or 66 fps
Vs= 1400 fps
Ds=90 ft
Ts=?
Where Vg= velocity of goose, Vs= velocity of shoot, and Ds= distance to target. First solve for Ts or Time for shot to hit target.

Ts= Ds/Vs = 90/1400= .0643 seconds.

Now calculate how far the goose will travel (Dg) in .0643 seconds

Dg= Ts*Vg = 0.643*66 = 4.25 feet

So at 30 yards with a goose flying 45 mph across you it would require 4.25 feet in sustained lead to hit your target. Note this is in a perfect world not taking in account for drag, gravity, air temps, humidity and all that good stuff. If you take in account muzzle velocity and the true velocity of shot at 30 yards you will find that even more lead is required.

 

Point. Shoot.

 

So at 30 yards with a goose flying 45 mph across you it would require 4.25 feet in sustained lead to hit your target.

I not saying your math is wrong, or you are wrong at all, im just trying to grasp your post. Either im doing the leading in my mind without thinking or knowing what is going on, or Im just getting lucky.

I had one flock do exactly what you mentioned before last weekend, except it was @ 35 yards. We were facing north and the birds were flying straight west. I took two shots and dropped them both instantly. I have always put the bead on the head, which is where both birds I shot were bleeding from in addition to both necks being crushed. After cleaning the birds, I think I found one pellet in the upper breast, other than that, they were clean. I didnt lead them at all, just but the bead on the head.

Please tell me what im missing in your figures etc. Id really like to figure this out!

Thanks

 

Well Deadeye, I had a nice long technical right up for ya, but I guess I took too long to submit it and I was logged out. This time I will keep it simple and to the point, YOU GOT LUCKY, TWICE! :stirpot: Just kidding with ya. Truth of the matter is at 35 yards you have a shot string in the range of 3' across, consult pattern board. Also it probably didn't look anything like the patterning board as not all the shoot is at the same point in space at the same exact time (why I don't worry too much about patterning loads). I know, I know, just terrible and unethical. Personally I believe you lead them more than you think as you have obtained a sight picture and know what you need to see to kill birds. I wasn't there and I doubt the geese were moving at 45 mph, but I can only speculate to that fact.

My math was only for a single projectile at a point in space (simple) compared to a shot string which is much more dimensional (difficult). So there is some error in the calculation. Needless to say, you can't consistenly shoot full throttle birds at 35 yards without leading them. This video is from shotkam, mostly shot at a skeet field. Watch at 2:35. This looks like a shot from station 4. The bird is aorund 25 yards out and moving between 45-50 mph. Then watch at the end there is a double from station 7, these birds are around 10-15 yards out. These are good demonstrations on leading a target at distance and up close.

(shot string)

For kicks and giggles, go to a skeet field and shoot from station 4. Put the bead on the bird and shoot with no lead or follow through and miss 99% of them. Video it so we can all have a good laugh. Or maybe you can prove me wrong! :beer:

 

Point. Shoot.

I like this one :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

JP

 

Point. Shoot.

I like this one :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

JP

Really you can't over think shooting a shotgun.

If you start thinking about lead or wind speed etc you should be out shooting a rifle not a shotgun.

If its decoying pull up and shoot, if its passing pull up and shoot.

Yeah on a passing shot you need to be out in front of the bird and follow through. But you can't think well I need so many feet of lead for a bird traveling 15.3 MPH and a wind of 29.35 mph from whatever directon.

Its not long range rifle shooting. Just put some gap between the end of your barrel and the birds head and see what happens. Most of all you have to follow through!

Its all in experience and follow through.

Best bet is to open your choke, pattern your gun and shoot em in close.

Then if you miss don't reinforce it. Forget it.

Sent from my Tim Grounds Triple Crown

 

Eh hem....

Butt. Body. Beak. BOOM!! :beer:

 

Eh hem....

Butt. Body. Beak. BOOM!! :beer:

I love your thinking, when are you taking me hunting Jedi Master?

Sent from my Tim Grounds Triple Crown

 

Eh hem....

Butt. Body. Beak. BOOM!! :beer:

I love your thinking, when are you taking me hunting Jedi Master?

Sent from my Tim Grounds Triple Crown

If it isn't broke, don't fix it. :thumbsup: Wing shooting, just like any other shooting takes practice...becomes instict or a muscle memory thing...Thing is, some folks, like a couple people I've hunted with, couldn't hit water if they were at the bottom of a lake no matter how much practice they get.

 

I run the math in the blind. Almost every time. I know what kind of lead at different yardages for different angles and speeds. I pre-plan various scenarios ahead of time and adjust accordingly.
I started shooting the HyperShock rounds last year and had to re-learn my lead distances. At 300ft/second faster, my lead lessened considerably.
For instance, a teal at 30 yards, flying perpendicular(crossways); my lead is roughly 11 inches less than with a conventional steel load. I killed a lot of teal this season and have the pov video to prove it.
I believe in "instinct shooting": learn, practice, plan and instinct will take over when its time to shoot.