Why call?

[Earl]

My dad and I have been goose hunting for probably close to 10 years now. I think most goose hunters would understand that for the first 4-5 years we really struggled at times. When I say struggled, I mean that when I would come home for christmas break during my college years I would kill two or three geese in 6-7 days of hunting. In the past 3-4 years however, we have become much more consistant with good days. We have spent a LOT of money to get both our river and field spreads to where we think they should be, and a LOT more on a boat, guns, and blinds. This year, with a little cooperation from the weather, we shot our limit 13 out of 16 times hunting. Not to mention the numerous ducks we killed. Here is the kicker however. After struggling at first, and learning so much over those years, the one thing that my dad and I NEVER do is call. During the bad years we would try with little to no success. After we started to kill birds, we literally gave it up. I feel that this season was an exception around here with the HUGE number of birds, and the weather. I want to continue improving at this, but I am still skeptical about if calling is REALLY that neccesary. I am 90% convinced that if your decoy spread is convincing, and your blinds are setup correctly that you will kill birds. Three seperate times this year we where set up within a quarter of a mile of other hunters with descent spreads. These other guys would call, and call, and call, only to have the geese come and land in our spread while we are completely silent. Why? Where we more concealed? Our spread wasn't that much bigger, but I think it was set up WAY better. When I talk to other hunters, or watch the proffessionals do it on tv, they always talk about turning birds with a call. The way I have seen it, if they are coming, they are coming. If they are not, then they are not. To get to the point, am I wrong?? Have the last few seasons just been so good that we lucked out? I am definetely not saying that knowledge and advice of other hunters is wrong. Will I benefit from becoming a good caller? Will our lack of calling catch up to us during those not so good seasons?? I hope I dont stir things up here.

[cashman]

I'll completely agree that calling is very over-rated and, IMO, one of the least important factors in killing geese. However, I think simply stating that calling isn't necessary is a bit too much. I believe one of the most important factors in being successful in the field is doing things DIFFERENTLY than other hunters do them. You said that you had other hunters set up near you were calling... you weren't... that makes you different and that makes you stand out. While I'll agree that the layout of a spread is incredibly important, I think we over think shapes and family groups, and blobs, and this and that way too much. I think the real key is to be different and to stand out in a natural way.

I've had a lot of old school guys tell me that same statement "if they're coming, they're coming and if they aren't they aren't" and I have to tell you it burns a real hole in my arse to hear it. While that might be true for 20% of the birds... what about the other 80%? What about the ones that "might" do it and need a little "push" or encouragement to commit? If that were always true, why do we bother with decoys and calls and concealment and flagging and all that other stuff??? Why not just lay in the friggin' field with your blue jeans and a Columbia coat with a pocket full of shells and blast away???? These are usually the same guys that tell me I give geese way too much credit for their intelligence and I tell them that they don't really understand what I'm saying...

A goose is a prey animal, things want to kill and eat geese. Naturally for a prey species to survive, they have to learn to adapt to situations that put them in danger. So after they've seen and been shot at by every Joe Shmoe with 6 dozen BF's, they figure it out that that situation puts them in danger. They learn from their mistakes (unlike a lot of humans and hunters I might add) and they don't make those mistakes again. It's not intelligence, it's learned behavior and they have to learn or they die.

So sure, calling is over-rated, but what I think the real key is is that we find ways to do things differently than other guys. Set yourself apart, pay attention to details, and it will happen. That's just my dollar bill on the topic...

[Earl]

I appreciate your reply and I respect your opinion. I reread my post and realized I should have elaborated a little on if they come they come. Where we hunt, when the birds get off of the river, they act as if they know EXACTLY where they are going. If the geese get up and fly outside of about 500 yards of where the decoys are, I have yet to see birds turn and come as if they have been enticed. I watch where the geese land on a daily basis due to the fact that I live close to where we hunt. Therefore, I get the opportunity to watch a lot of other hunters through binocs and still, I never see geese cancel there plans of where they want to go. In other words, we have to get as close to there flight path as possible to have any success. I have read numerous times, and heard numerous times that scouting is number one on the list to be succesful, and I couldnt agree more. To get back to what I was aiming at, the geese that fly in close proximity of us, OR the geese that I watched the previous day land where we are set up, THOSE are the geese that are coming. Are those birds that fly outside of the path callable? From what I have seen they are not. Or have I never been witness to someone that knows how to blow a call?

On another note, the reason I am addicted to goose hunting is for this very reason. I am simply searching for ways to become better. My first love is elk hunting with a bow, and the similarities between decoying geese and archery elk are amazing. One single little thing can make our break an opportunity to kill an elk. The bottom line is, your have to pay attention to the little things in order to be better than the next guy. I have had a lot of success with a bow, and there are many thing over the years that I have heard from others that are MUSTS DO'S, and CANT EVER DO'S that I have completely discounted through first hand experience. I believe that there are some of the same things said about goose hunting, but only time will tell due to my lack of experience compared to others, many of whom will probably read this post. Thanks again for the reply though

[Earl]

I put together a list of what I feel are the most important factors in killing geese (in order of most important to least). This is obviously up for discussion. Please include your opinion on this.

1) Scouting - you have GOT to be where to geese want to go, or at least in there way
2) Concealment - if they can see you, or something that looks out of place, they are NOT coming. I have learned that eyeballs are a killer. When we take other people hunting, and I know that they are looking around and moving there head, it becomes nearly impossible to kill.
3) Size of the spread - this may just be specific to our area, but geese are comforted by numbers, especially in the fields. We add to the spread every year, and every year our success improves.
4) Set-up of the spread - this is very close in importance of decoy numbers. For the first couple of years we hunted, we set our decoys up in a very un-natural way and had little success. I feel that this is where many hunters fail. I learned more by watching live geese that I ever did by reading or listening to others.
5) Movement/motion in the spread - maybe others could help me here. How important is this really? Maybe we could improve on this. As of right now we dont have any????
6) Calling - Im sure by now you probably understand where I stand on calling, but then again, I could be way off on this. Right now, if I could think of other factors in goose hunting, I would probably place it above calling.

[seafood]

The way I have seen it, if they are coming, they are coming. If they are not, then they are not.

I have only been at this for the last 3 or 4 seasons but 90% of the time I completely agree with your statement above.When the birds want to come in they just come in. And when they are at cruising speed with no interest...no calling will turn them around.

In fact I am more afraid of calling, and having it not sound right, and flaring birds, than not calling and feeling like I didnt get them to come in.

Now..there are a few times that I have had geese circle, and circle and circle and then leave...where I think a proficient caller might have got them to committ.

When there is a flock of 300 birds circling the blind, there is no way they can distinquish a call coming from the ground versus all that noise in the air. At least this is my opinion.

Now, a small group of 7-12 geese with only one talking a little...a cluck or two might be the sealer.

I've seen geese completely change direction due to some flagging, and I am sure that some do as well for good calling, But I agree that calling is the least important skill.

[Earl]

From my experience, there are two types of circling geese. I would say that 10%, perhaps less, circle becasue they are just simply out of position to land. They are either too high, or moving too fast (the wind at there back). These geese are still interested in putting their feet down. 90% of circling geese are doing it because something just isnt right. In most of the causes, I think that when geese circle directly above the blinds is when you are the most exposed. Your face, your eyes. If you really pay attention to geese that circle, Everyone of them is scanning your decoys. I have never seen geese circle more than once and still come in, with the exception of the occasional desperate loner. A group of geese will eventually see something that is un-natural and when they do they are always gone. The more time they spend directly above you, the more apt you are to getting busted. This is the reason that calm days are so difficult to hunt in. They start too high, and get to much time to look things over. Now, the question is again, would calling prevent to from seeing something they didnt like? I dont think so. But, would the little bit of added enticement change their minds about not coming in? I dont know. It didnt work for me in the past. When they make their minds up, the game is over.

[dwbiggs]

when the birds get off of the river, they act as if they know EXACTLY where they are going.

Great post...I have been wondering this for a while now. Last season was my first and I got started hunting on a river. I've seen plenty of birds but they all are on there way somewhere and don't seem interested. Since you have much more experience hunting on the river... can I pick your brain a little?

1. We have been pretty much not completely concealing ourselves...basically thinking that if we make no movements the Geese will not pick us up. I take it this is wrong? We usually back up under some trees but are not completely covered. Maybe I will get some camo cover and completely cover up or lay down in a blind.
2. How many decoys would you use for a river spread? We have been using anywhere from 12-18 dekes in a little cove of an island... clearing a center area. The down river side is to thick to set up in. We have no standers...is this critical? Is being on the downriver side critical?
3. What places do Geese favor on a river? A completely sandy open island? Do trees and growth make them wary of landing?
4. When you say to get in between them and where they want to go...is this when they first get up in morning or when/if they come back after feeding...or both? Seems that the Geese I see never come back until right at dark.

BTW, this past Sept we had a loner Goose circle our island twice before continuing down river. I believe either he finally saw us or we called too much...it was fun to watch anyway. Also we have had geese fly toward us out of range (in middle of river) and a little calling would make them veer toward us enough to get a shot...happened numerous times.


I hope I haven't asked too many questions.

[goosechaser125]

Don't take this wrong, but.... if you are hunting always on the X, you are not "hunting" you are shooting geese. I don't mean this to sound like "you aren't a hunter" What I mean is, if you are on the X birds are going to come to 6 decoys. or 600 decoys. It is fun and there is nothing wrong with that.

Hunting geese is more of a experience of turning geese to you that where going somewhere else. I like both, during my season. Killing birds on the X and hunting birds and getting them to come to me, by calling, flagging, having awsome decoys, realistic spread, what ever makes it happen. I agree calling is over rated, but sometimes it is what finishes the birds. I prefer awsome decoys and movement. On the X, calling is the easiest way to push the birds away.

Again not at all bashing your goose hunting, enjoy the days on the X because over the years goose populations grow and shrink and you will have some though seasons and some easy seasons. Most important have fun and keep learning.

[Earl]

Dwbiggs, I dont mind the questions at all. First of all, we havent had the success on the river like we have had on the fields, and beleive me, we have put a TON of effort into the river hunts. Dont get me wrong, we have had days when we will limit on geese and ducks on the river, then go back a few days later and only kill a few. From everything I have read and heard about decoys on the river, you dont need the numbers, and I am starting to beleive it. First of all, you have all the room in the world in the fields to set up your decoys, AND make it look natural. When your dealing with a river bank, or an island, yeah you can pack the decoys into an area, but are you taking away from the realism of your spread, or are you giving them enough space to land? I still think I have a few more years (maybe decades) before I eally get the river figured out, but there are a few things I have learned that is making us better for now. We have 5 dozen BF's and 3 dozen BF shells that we use on the fields. When we would go to the river, my dad and I would pack ALL of those on the boat along with a dozen crappy old floaters that we had. More times than not, we would get 2-3 dozen set out that looked really good, and then start packing in the rest to fill the holes. I feel like this was our first mistake. The majority of the time, or spread would become unrealistic looking because we had too many decoys in a small space. I have also spent a LOT of time watching live birds sit on the river. The one thing that is ALWAYS common is the fact that when the get to the river, the are there to rest. I never see many active geese on the water, as in head up, neck stretched out. Weather plays a little bit of a role in what they do, but nomatter what the temp is, I would say that 30%-40% of the geese will eventually sleep. I have seen sub zero days when 100% of them are sleeping. That being said, I completely changed our river spread. I purchased a dozen BF sleeper shells, re-organized our BF's bags so that when I go to the river I grab the ones that are holding ONLY resters and a few feeders, and bought a dozen BF floaters to finish it off. So the first time I go next season I plan on taking the dozen floaters, dozen sleepers, and probably around 18 BF's. As for how to organize the spread, I feel it is very similar to a field. You have to provide them with a place to land (landing strip). If you dont, the still might come in, but who now where, it might be out of the range of your shotgun. We prefer floaters upstream, maybe a few strays down stream, and the full bodies/shells mostly downstream with a pocket in the middle. Another thing that I have learned is that if you have duck decoys included in your spread, keep them further upstream than you goose floaters. For some reason, geese dont like ducks in the middle of the spread.

When it comes to concealment, I guess it is hard to answer your question. Every place and situation is different. In a field, I doesnt take much to look out of place and standout. On the river, the is ALL kinds of different looking landscape and objects. My best advice is to walk away from whoever you are hunting with and tell him/her to stay still. If they look horribly out of place when you get a ways back, then the geese will probably think the same. Camo pattern is huge on the river. I have learned that with the right camo, you dont have to worry as much about getting behind anything. Some of the island around here have alot of newly growing willows. They are only 5-6 feet tall, and we will sit right in the middle of them with no problems at all. Other time when we are hunting the bank, we will simply sit behind an old dead tree, or build a natural blind with whatever is around. Like I said, if you stand back and it looks bad to you, it looks even worse to a bird.

There is another post on the forum that talks about the schedule of when geese fly, and they are right on. No one knows. I know that around here, 95% of the time the geese will feed twice a day, and make their last trip back to the water in the dark. My dad and I have gone back and forth about when we should be leaving the boat ramp in the morning. Generally speaking, the big run on the river is anytime between about 10 am and 2 pm. But that doesnt mean you cant do really well right after day break, or right before dark. What we like to do is leave the ramp as soon as there is enough light to see. We never rush things at first though. To anwser another one of your questions about where to the prefer to land, trust me, if you take a boat on the river right a daybreak, you will know where the like to land. It is the best way to scout the river. When you see flocks of hundreds of geese leaving the river around the next bend, then it will probably be a good idea to check out where they were, and see if it is a place that can fit your decoys, and get you concealed, if it is, then there is your place to hunt.

[speckleberry]

I realize you fellas are talkin' Canadas, but I guess I'm just surprised to hear how easy they are to kill. You won't kill many specks, snows, or even ducks down here without a call. Sure, set a huge snow spread and add a lot of noise, and most anything is easier. As for circling, specks and snows do it the vast majority of the time. In a stiff wind, they may just hang out there and swing back and forth for quite some time, but definitely makes 'em no less kill-able.

Don't you use a call to at least line them up for the shot, or are they so predictable there's no guesswork?

[Jon McGrath]

I realize you fellas are talkin' Canadas, but I guess I'm just surprised to hear how easy they are to kill. You won't kill many specks, snows, or even ducks down here without a call. Sure, set a huge snow spread and add a lot of noise, and most anything is easier. As for circling, specks and snows do it the vast majority of the time. In a stiff wind, they may just hang out there and swing back and forth for quite some time, but definitely makes 'em no less kill-able.

Don't you use a call to at least line them up for the shot, or are they so predictable there's no guesswork?

Canada's are fairly predictable in my eyes. I hear ya on the snows and specks though, those are vocal birds that almost require you to call at them to get them to finish or to even give you a look for that matter. The silent treatment does not work with those wiley birds. You are correct that a call will work wonders in lining canada's up for the shot.

Personally, I will always call. It's part of the package with goose hunting. It doesn't matter if your just clucking and moaning or giving them your entire vocabulary.

[Earl]

I would absolutley never say that the are easy to kill. It had been one of the most challenging and at some times frustrating things I have ever done. I will however, say that I have never hunted specks or snows. So canadas may be easier to kill that other species of geese. There are a few factors that might make things easier where I hunt though. We literally hunt these geese right when they cross the border. Even though I feel like they get a lot of hunting pressure around here, Im sure that by the time they make their way further south, the are more educated, therefore harder to decoy. The main reason or we have become more successful is due to the fact that we have 1) spent the money to buy a descent amount of quality decoys 2) learned how to set them up 3) spend countless hours researching and scouting. NOT because the canadas are easy to kill. Another factor that may benefit us is that the geophraphically, this is a geese/duck hunters paradise. Lots of water, and lots of grain fields close to the water. So in other words, I might be a below average hunter that lives in a grea place to hunt. Either way, I know that I have a lot to learn from both the people, such as yourself, that are above average, and by experience in the field.

ps - what exactly do you mean by predictable? no offense, just wondering?

[brentbullets]

Interesting topic. I have been a waterfowler for over 30 years and have targeting canada geese in the fields for 5 years now. I can call ducks but never learned how to run a goose call. Why, because I have yet to be convinced that it is necessary. My most successful goose hunts have come with little or no calling at all. These hunts have been on the X and also running traffic. This past couple of seasons I have had the oppertunity to hunt with some very proficient goose callers and I will have to be honest I didn't see any great advantage to using a call. Now some times I have been down in a pit and not able to see the geese respond to calling but I haven't really seen it from a lay down either.

I am going to commit to learning some basics on a short reed, but I am wondering if it is something that needs to be done.

Location, hide and a flag really is what it boils down to for me.

[DSM16428]

Brent, I'm almost in the same boat as you. Hunted geese for almost 30 years and have been running short reed calls for only 4 of them. Always used resonance calls and flutes, but now I'm hooked on the short stuff!

To the OP.
What I do now and what I have ALWAYS done is use what got the birds attention in the first place to finish the birds with some murmurs and clucks mixed in when they are within 100 yards or so. If the birds slid off to one side or started to swing away, I hit em with what ever call I hooked em on and then usually just keep that up until they finish. Since the flag has become more user friendly and compact, I usually hook the birds with the flag and just adjust my calling to the birds' attitude or how they react as they come in and give the flag a flip or two if they slide off or start to swing. There is no set answer on wether you should or shouldn't call. You should however learn to read the birds more than anything else. If you go out in the field with one mind set and do the same thing again and again you might get birds sure, but you'll be a whole lot more successful when you can read the birds and react accordingly. Geese ARE NOT SMART!!...they are however a wary bird, made even more so from hunting pressure from the guys that don't learn from their mistakes, call too loud and too much or not enough, shoot into large flocks, don't hide well enough...you see where I'm goin there?

[Lonegoose]

Somedays you don't need a call and somedays you do. Simple as that. Same goes for decoys. Some days you could run 4 decoys and other days a big spread is needed to harvest birds. I don't think calling is the most important aspect of goose hunting. However, I do think its important to know the basics sounds when it comes to calling geese. Yes, there are days that geese drop right into the spread with no calling, but those days can be far and few between. Then you have the days when the birds are in the air looking at your decoys and are on the verge of committing but they just need to hear some confidence sounds, honk, cluck,moan,murmer. Once they hear that they immediately cupp and commit. Then you have the days that geese have no interest in your set up and have a diferent plan but with some loud and aggressive calling you can get the birds to change course and commit to your spread. Sometimes birds start to slide off and then you hit them with the call and they get back on track towards you. To me those days are those most important to have a call. Not saying you have to be a pro but knowing the basics could turn a skunk into a limit for sure.

[fisherhunter460]

I think knowing when to call based on the language of the geese is as important as anything else in the field. It's a powerful tool of persuasion. I can pretty certain over my 13 years that I have pulled many birds from large flocks, have turned many birds to the decoys, and finished many birds because of calling. I also know that there are many that just came right in without any persuading. I watched a flock today work some one else's decoys that went all but that last 50 yards when no one was in the blind, but didn't land. Also had a pair that did it to us and put right down in the decoys with no calling. They bowed up at 75 yards and I knew I didn't need to do anything unless they picked up their wings. So I think calling and when to call is very important. And it is easy to over do it and pick the wrong moment. Just my opinions.

To Speckleberry, I once had a snow goose guide that said canada goose hunting was the special olympics of waterfowling. I don't think he ever hunted the Atlantic flyway. But,, Canadas are pretty predictable and can be very easily controlled by decoy placement as far as how they circle. line up and finish.

[speckleberry]

...To Speckleberry, I once had a snow goose guide that said canada goose hunting was the special olympics of waterfowling. I don't think he ever hunted the Atlantic flyway. But,, Canadas are pretty predictable and can be very easily controlled by decoy placement as far as how they circle. line up and finish.

Probably a bit harsh, but got a similar story from a guy in PA. Just seems a bit odd to me that a bird that seems so vocal, can't at least be coaxed with some encouragement. I do, however, have a buddy that considers calling just somethin' to do when there's nothin' to do, as far as duck hunting is concerned. Course, you'd hafta hear him to appreciate it.

[Jon McGrath]

what exactly do you mean by predictable? no offense, just wondering?

Hey no worries! I like topics like this.

What I meant by it was, when I scout and find a feed of canadas I can pretty much gurantee they will be back. Assuming they don't get bumped off by someone deer hunting, predators or farmers. Where I hunt it's just how it is. Once they find a food source, they are in it for awhile until something forces them to another field.

[DmLGoose]

I respect all of your guys opinions but my experience has lead me to not leave my house without my calls. I usually hunt water or flooded corn and I've called in geese without any decoys. I know this goes against all of your guys opinions but I have found that when you use a call, make it more of pleading sound and geese respond a lot better. I use really small spreads of usually no more than a dozen on water and 3 dozen on field. I have circled geese probably about 7 times in some of the worst spots and they still land. We dont scout very often because the geese just go wherever they want. If you call at the right time, then you can kill geese without any decoys. I dont go out without any decoys though. They are a main aspect but in between early season and regular season or anytime season is closed i call geese in wothout any decoys just to experiment and they respond very well. This is my list on where we hunt usually on all aspects of our hunting. (greatest to least impotancy)

(1. concealment)
(2. standing out in a natural way)
(3. calling)
(4. decoys)
(5. scouting)

[Doubletap]

After chasing geese for over 40 yrs, I would say that 80% of the birds I have killed came in because of a call, we run traffic about 90% of the time, if geese are 1/4 mile off the line, the only way they will know I am there is to hear a call, after I get their attention, it just depends on the situation, but most of the time, just clucks, double clucks and such to keep them on line, if they are still set at 100 yds, they are dead birds, pure and simple, just guide them in like a plane landing, I may leave home with out a lot of things, but my calls aren't one of them Even if we hunt the X, I stll want them in a certain area of the dekes so everyone can get some shooting, cant do that with out call either, just an old man's opinion